[Rpcemu] RPCEmu 0.9.0 Keyboard key not working?

[Jeroen Vermeulen]

First, thank you very much for the new version delivered! I like it a
lot and on my Windows 10 machine for example I'm finally getting good
sound output compared to previous versions of RPCEmu.

I'm running into the following though that I would like to share. On a
keyboard configured in RISCOS to USA the key with " and ' signs does not
seem to be working anymore. This I experience when for example running
the !Hopper game with the keys as they come standard. The same in !Edit,
pressing the key does not generate output.

Setting the Keyboard back to the default UK does not help. I've run
RPCEmu 0.9.00 with 5.23 and 5.25 riscos roms, but this also doesn't
solve it. In RPCEmu 0.8.15 the key is working. Could this therefore be
version 0.9.00 related or is it something in my setup? I'm running
RPCEmu on Windows 10 Home riscos 5.24 StrongARM 128MB Sound on

Best regards,
Jeroen Vermeulen







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[J Percival]

I'm not familiar with using a US keyboard under RiscOS and I only have a UK
one here, but I tried setting country to USA on RO5.22 (through *configure
country, *country, and *keyboard) and it acted as I would have expected
with " changing to @ and vice-versa, etc.
It seemed to make no difference whether Windows was configured for a US or
UK keyboard (which was a bit of a surprise - maybe the devs can explain).
Do you perhaps have some other layout configured in Windows that could be
the issue?

First, thank you very much for the new version delivered! I like it a lot
and on my Windows 10 machine for example I'm finally getting good sound
output compared to previous versions of RPCEmu.
I'm running into the following though that I would like to share. On a
keyboard configured in RISCOS to USA the key with " and ' signs does not
seem to be working anymore. This I experience when for example running the
!Hopper game with the keys as they come standard. The same in !Edit,
pressing the key does not generate output.
Setting the Keyboard back to the default UK does not help. I've run RPCEmu
0.9.00 with 5.23 and 5.25 riscos roms, but this also doesn't solve it. In
RPCEmu 0.8.15 the key is working. Could this therefore be version 0.9.00
related or is it something in my setup? I'm running RPCEmu on Windows 10
Home riscos 5.24 StrongARM 128MB Sound on
Best regards,
Jeroen Vermeulen
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[J Percival]

Hi Frank. My response was to Jeroen's e-mail. I assume he was talking about
the actual quotes key on a US keyboard, rather than anything related to
accented characters.
Incidentally, Alt-Gr combos don't seem to produce them for me, so that may
be a Linux/Windows difference but it isn't something I'm remotely familiar
with so I'll leave it to the devs to clarify if/when they have the chance.

Regards,
James

gmail.com>,

Post by J Percival
I'm not familiar with using a US keyboard under RiscOS and I only have a

UK

Post by J Percival
one here, but I tried setting country to USA on RO5.22 (through

*configure

Post by J Percival
country, *country, and *keyboard) and it acted as I would have expected

This isn't about setting the keyboard handler to US or UK. It's the
(right) keys not working as they should. I have to hold down the AltGr
key whenever I want an accent to show up. Not just the " and ', by the
way. All of them, `, ^ and ~ as well.
I think it may have something to do with the host using a handler like
'UK international with dead keys'. Somehow RPCEmu doesn't respect that
and treats it like 'UK international with AltGr'.
Regards,
Frank
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[J Percival]

Okay, I get what you mean by accent keys now - so trying to produce a
normal single quote for example in RPCEmu and having to hold down Alt-Gr?
But it works fine outside of the emulator? That's strange.
I had a look at RPCEmu's keyboard handling code a bit. It uses
scancodes/keycodes and its own translation tables (explains why setting US
layout in Windows didn't make any difference). The codes on Linux (X11)
aren't raw scancodes apparantly as they can be altered by the host to take
account of different keyboard layouts, but if this is sometimes a problem
on Windows as well, then that's probably not relevant. I don't know why,
say, a single quote would be treated as such in the host but as a dead key
by RPCEmu but it could be a Qt bug. Input-handling doesn't seem to be one
of its strong-points. Did you have the same problem in 0.8.15?

Regards,
James

mail.gmail.com>,

Post by J Percival
Hi Frank. My response was to Jeroen's e-mail. I assume he was talking

about

Post by J Percival
the actual quotes key on a US keyboard, rather than anything related to
accented characters.

He wrote about the " and ' keys, which are essentially accent keys. He
also wrote '...pressing the key does not generate output.' which is the
same thing that's happening here when any of the accent keys are pressed
without AltGr. That's why I replied to him, suggesting he'd try the
AltGr route. As he hasn't responded yet, we can't be sure whether it is
the same issue or not yet, though.
Regards,
Frank
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[Jeroen Vermeulen]

Hi,

Thank you Frank and J for the info provided so far! I was referring to
the actual quotes key on a US keyboard, not accented characters I think.
Apologies, if I didn't make that clear. On a US keyboard it's the key
left from the Enter key and either used to put text between quotes, like
this ' example' or (with Shift held down) "example", or in quite a few
games as the up or forward key for player control (and that's why in
!Hopper I could not move the frog upwards on the screen, only sideways).

J's response about Windows keyboard settings triggered me to try the
following. Here in NL I use as Windows keyboard: USA (International).
But I have added now under Windows the following keyboard as well:
United Kingdom. When selecting the latter keyboard and trying the quotes
key again in RPCEmu it's now being picked up. In !Edit it prints ' and
(when Shift is held down) " on screen and in !Hopper the frog is moved
upwards on the screen. When using this keyboard under Windows however
then the quote key is giving me ' and (with Shift held down) @ instead of ".

So, work around is available for me it looks like though not ideal :-)
Put RISCOS !Boot -> Keyboard to USA and when using RPCEmu put Windows
keyboard to United Kingdom temporarily.

Hope this makes it a little bit clearer on what I'm experiencing!

Best regards,
Jeroen

Post by J Percival
Okay, I get what you mean by accent keys now - so trying to produce a
normal single quote for example in RPCEmu and having to hold down
Alt-Gr? But it works fine outside of the emulator? That's strange.
I had a look at RPCEmu's keyboard handling code a bit. It uses
scancodes/keycodes and its own translation tables (explains why
setting US layout in Windows didn't make any difference). The codes on
Linux (X11) aren't raw scancodes apparantly as they can be altered by
the host to take account of different keyboard layouts, but if this is
sometimes a problem on Windows as well, then that's probably not
relevant. I don't know why, say, a single quote would be treated as
such in the host but as a dead key by RPCEmu but it could be a Qt bug.
Input-handling doesn't seem to be one of its strong-points. Did you
have the same problem in 0.8.15?
Regards,
James
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:42 AM, Frank de Bruijn
In article

Post by J Percival
Hi Frank. My response was to Jeroen's e-mail. I assume he was

talking about

Post by J Percival
the actual quotes key on a US keyboard, rather than anything

related to

Post by J Percival
accented characters.

He wrote about the " and ' keys, which are essentially accent keys. He
also wrote '...pressing the key does not generate output.' which is the
same thing that's happening here when any of the accent keys are pressed
without AltGr. That's why I replied to him, suggesting he'd try the
AltGr route. As he hasn't responded yet, we can't be sure whether it is
the same issue or not yet, though.
Regards,
Frank
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[J Percival]

Hi Jeroen. As I understand it, USA-International treats a number of keys
(including single/double quotes) as the first part of a two-key combination
to produce accented characters (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QWERTY#US-International ). You should be able
to use the standard US keyboard layout in Windows instead of the UK one if
you want - I think it's just the special handling of " ' ` ~ ^ in
US-International that's the problem (and maybe some others). This should be
possible to fix in RPCEmu itself in a later version so that all common
keyboard layouts will work properly - a google search turned up a bunch of
people with the same problem and there's a few solutions. Glad you got it
working anyway. :)

Regards,
James

Hi,
Thank you Frank and J for the info provided so far! I was referring to the
actual quotes key on a US keyboard, not accented characters I think.
Apologies, if I didn't make that clear. On a US keyboard it's the key left
from the Enter key and either used to put text between quotes, like this '
example' or (with Shift held down) "example", or in quite a few games as
the up or forward key for player control (and that's why in !Hopper I could
not move the frog upwards on the screen, only sideways).
J's response about Windows keyboard settings triggered me to try the
following. Here in NL I use as Windows keyboard: USA (International). But I
have added now under Windows the following keyboard as well: United
Kingdom. When selecting the latter keyboard and trying the quotes key again
in RPCEmu it's now being picked up. In !Edit it prints ' and (when Shift is
held down) " on screen and in !Hopper the frog is moved upwards on the
screen. When using this keyboard under Windows however then the quote key
So, work around is available for me it looks like though not ideal :-) Put
RISCOS !Boot -> Keyboard to USA and when using RPCEmu put Windows keyboard
to United Kingdom temporarily.
Hope this makes it a little bit clearer on what I'm experiencing!
Best regards,
Jeroen
Okay, I get what you mean by accent keys now - so trying to produce a
normal single quote for example in RPCEmu and having to hold down Alt-Gr?
But it works fine outside of the emulator? That's strange.
I had a look at RPCEmu's keyboard handling code a bit. It uses
scancodes/keycodes and its own translation tables (explains why setting US
layout in Windows didn't make any difference). The codes on Linux (X11)
aren't raw scancodes apparantly as they can be altered by the host to take
account of different keyboard layouts, but if this is sometimes a problem
on Windows as well, then that's probably not relevant. I don't know why,
say, a single quote would be treated as such in the host but as a dead key
by RPCEmu but it could be a Qt bug. Input-handling doesn't seem to be one
of its strong-points. Did you have the same problem in 0.8.15?
Regards,
James

gmail.com>,

Post by J Percival
Hi Frank. My response was to Jeroen's e-mail. I assume he was talking

about

Post by J Percival
the actual quotes key on a US keyboard, rather than anything related to
accented characters.

He wrote about the " and ' keys, which are essentially accent keys. He
also wrote '...pressing the key does not generate output.' which is the
same thing that's happening here when any of the accent keys are pressed
without AltGr. That's why I replied to him, suggesting he'd try the
AltGr route. As he hasn't responded yet, we can't be sure whether it is
the same issue or not yet, though.
Regards,
Frank
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[Jeroen Vermeulen]

Hi Frank, I've tried with different keyboard settings, but unfortunately
none of them is giving " at my end?

Best regards,
Jeroen

Post by Jeroen Vermeulen
So, work around is available for me it looks like though not ideal :-)
Put RISCOS !Boot -> Keyboard to USA and when using RPCEmu put Windows
keyboard to United Kingdom temporarily.

Not ideal, no. But you have a workaround at least. Did you check whether
holding down the AltGr key made any difference? It would be good to know
whether this was in any way related to what I'm seeing here.
Regards,
Frank
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[Jeroen Vermeulen]

Hi Frank, holding Right Alt while pressing one of the other keys to get
" ' ` ~ ^ does not produce output here unfortunately. Best regards, Jeroen

Post by Jeroen Vermeulen
Hi Frank, I've tried with different keyboard settings, but unfortunately
none of them is giving " at my end?

So AltGr didn't help? Not the same issue then.
I wonder what the devs make of these problems...
Regards,
Frank
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[J Percival]

I may have a source-code modification to fix the accent/dead-key issue on
Windows in a few days. Possibly Linux as well. I'm having to re-learn bits
of C++ that I forgot many many years ago, hehe.

Hi Frank, holding Right Alt while pressing one of the other keys to get "
' ` ~ ^ does not produce output here unfortunately. Best regards, Jeroen

Post by Jeroen Vermeulen
Hi Frank, I've tried with different keyboard settings, but unfortunately
none of them is giving " at my end?

So AltGr didn't help? Not the same issue then.
I wonder what the devs make of these problems...
Regards,
Frank
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